Jim and Casper Go to Church: Frank Conversation about Faith, Churches, and Well-Meaning Christians

I read Jim & Casper Go to Church: A believer, and atheist, an unlikely friendship by Jim Henderson and Matt Casper. It's a quick read and really eye-opening. These two guys were at Off The Map, so I kind of met them, but they didn't meet me, if you know what I mean. Jim Henderson is a pastor and Matt Casper is a friendly atheist. He talks about how there's a difference between atheist and anti-theist. Anyway, the premise of this book is that these two guys go to different churches and Casper rates them from an atheist viewpoint. (There is a website www.churchrater.com in which anyone can rate a church. I checked it out and, besides one vitriolic person who seems to hate the whole idea, it is mostly favorable ratings for people's own churches. I would be interested to see if there were any from fair and balanced reviewers who are neither regular attendees nor joy-suckers. I haven't looked at every rating though, so maybe there is some.) They go to a wide variety of churches including Saddleback, Willow Creek, Joel Osteen's church, and TD Jakes' church as well as some other less well-known churches like The Bridge in Portland, OR, which is a church for the homeless, and Mosaic, which rents a nightclub on Sunday mornings for services in Los Angeles. One of the striking things to me is that Casper kept asking after visiting the mega-churches, "Did Jesus ask you to do this?" He was quite put off by all the money spent on food courts and waterfalls and fog machines and lights etc. He also didn't like the spit and polish performances and sermons all about self-improvement, with no mention of the outside world. He also noticed that in most places, only the "hired greeters" had anything to say to them when they walked in the door. Very rarely did anyone even make eye contact with them. Casper really liked the churches where social justice was front and center. He likes The Bridge as well as Lawndale in Chicago. One of the things that really impressed him was how hard it was to find the church building in amongst the services set up by the church: a free medical clinic, an addiction recovery house, and family pizza restaurant to provide jobs for said recovering addicts. The church started growing, not with a church building, but with a Laundromat to serve the area. The church grew by building God's kingdom on earth, one local service at a time. They aren't trying the change the world, just the corner of it they're in. He also liked that there was not clear "worship leader". There was a band and everyone just sang along. He said that most of the churches talked about God, but Lawndale showed God. Casper also liked Imago Dei in Portland, although he found all the songs about blood "creepy". (They sang "Nothing but the Blood".) The band "wandered" into songs and the singers were casual in a hippy sort of way. He loved the video showing people from the church cleaning up a neighborhood park that had been a drug haven and making it a "

I just finished the book today (and this is my very first review). It's a quick read. Not much as far as in-depth analysis. In reality it's only the first impressions of someone who is not familiar with church culture. In some ways it feels like the script from a reality tv show. Funny, interesting, but something of substance is missing. That being said, I think what is worth thinking about the book are exactly those first impressions, particularly the line, "Is this what Jesus told you guys to do." That, I think is, how the book cashes out. But I must admit I was torn... One one hand, there are certain ancient traditions that Christians still practice today (the sacraments) that would be hard for any person outside of the Christian community to completely understand. In fact, it would be presumptuous for us to conclude that someone who is not a follower of Christ would understand theological concepts such as substitutionary atonement, imputation, justification, and sanctification. And before you shut me out because these concepts are "theological" - two things. First, pastors used to be sort of the theologian/philosopher/shepherd in their local community. They were less concerned with lights, smoke machines, and what have you, and really concerned about the state of people's souls. Second, these concepts work themselves out in how we live the Christian life in practical and often mundane ways. There's no way around this. On the other hand, I agree wholeheartedly that some of the practices that are a part of church today are not ancient but are new and in my opinion, kind of goofy. Some of the things that made Casper squirm are the very things that make me squirm. As a pastor I think there is much to consider here particularly when it comes to forcing community on people in sappy ways or giving the appearance that we are always happy, or as Dallas Willard likes to say, giving the impression that Christianity works in some sort of superficial magical way. We neglect the deep work of the Spirit in revealing both our virtues and vices that are deeply habituated in our hearts and minds. I still get the feeling that I'm in on a postmodern conversation. For instance, "I love the teachings of Jesus. I love the teachings of Buddha." I'm not sure how to make sense of that. There are other hints that the Christian faith is not necessarily a reservoir of knowledge but rather one simply accepts it by faith. I'm not comfortable with that. I certainly understand why Jim would hold back and not "befriend" Casper so as to debate him about the nature of truth. I agree that we are not looking for certainty (like Descartes) but the tradition of Christianity is that you could know certain things were true without acting like a pompous jackass. If you're confused read J.P. Moreland's chapter 5 in "The Kingdom Triangle." That being said, I think the book is worth reading. In fact, I laughed out loud in quite a few places agreeing wholeheartedly with Casper's thou

These two fellows have forged a friendship based on mutual trust and respect. While they embrace very different world views, Jim and Casper have built relational bridges that allow open, honest and revealing communication. We benefit from that transparency and are beneficiaries of their interesting adventure. Some thoughts: Based on similar historic experiences, I share Jim's aversion for certain aspects of what I might call the "Charismatic Circus". Casper, like so many atheists, suffers the indignities of being pigeon-holed by those who do not understand atheism. In several cases, my first impressions of some congregations did not match either one of theirs. (Willow Creek in particular.) While I share the some of the same concerns that Jim does, I feel that he might be painting evangelicals with too broad a brush. Read this for what it is: frank first impressions from initial visits to these congregations. It should not be used to make broad or final judgments about any of these communities of faith.

Jim and Casper Go To Church is a delightful and "fun" read that is loaded with challenging "zingers" that force the reader to stop and think about how Christians and the church is perceived by those who do not believe in God. Amidst the smooth and easy going conversation about their common experiences at various churches, the authors make salient points about the state of the church and Christians in the west. Each church visit seems to present a different challenge and identify a major hindrance to those who are not in the church. The book drips with integrity, honesty, and relationship. Jim and Casper seem like good friends. Both come across as very honest and forthright with a deep sense of integrity. Through out the book, when the authors want us not to miss the point, they step outside the story with "Defending the Space" commentary. These make for great discussion times. I found the book convicting when Casper put to Jim the question, "Is this what Jesus told you guys to do? Having pastored for over 25 years, I found myself rethinking many of the practices that we employed all in the name of Jesus. At times I was embarrassed at the things we did. I was convicted as I considered Casper's question which all Christians and vocational church workers need to answer? It begs us to ask the question "What really is Jesus asking his followers to do? As a seminary dean, I teach a course on missional leadership. I will be placing this book on my recommended reading list. The reason why is because this book will help the students understand more fully the mission of the church and gain valuable practical insight into what it means to be the "sent people of God." The implications of the experiences of Jim and Casper need to be taken seriously by all those involved in vocational ministry.

I enjoyed the book. As I reflected on the methodologies in the book, I am even more convinced that it is time to discard some long held convictions. The circus acts which you chronicle in the book solidify the idea that a "pastor-centric" church is nowhere near the model that Jesus designed for his church. Casper does a good job of reminding us that American Christianity has little resembelence to Jesus words. We are designing church just like your visit to Burger King....."Have it YOUR way". I dont think anybody is going to change their mind from reading your book, but it has provided a valuable perspective for the "household of faith".